Decoding Success: A Discussion of the In-House Experience

In a question and answer session moderated by Ken Gray, leader of Ward and Smith’s Labor and Employment Practice Group, two in-house attorneys from prominent North Carolina businesses shared real-world advice on a variety of topics, including how to manage relationships with internal clients, strategies for problem-solving, the advent of AI in in-house roles, and how to communicate in a workplace with multiple generations.

Meet the Panelists- Julie Hobbs

The event featured insights from Julie Hobbs, Assistant Chief Counsel for First Citizens Bank, one of the twenty largest financial institutions in the US.

Hobbs has extensive knowledge of regulatory oversight, governance, lending, mergers, and compliance within the banking sector. She started decades ago as an associate with Ward and Smith after graduating from law school.

An early experience for Hobbs included working in Montreal for a New York-based firm, providing cross-border consultancy services. “This was totally outside my knowledge base. I didn’t know anything, but it was a great experience,” laughed Hobbs.

Other highlights included assisting First Union with mergers and helping Wachovia navigate the financial crisis. From there, Hobbs joined Morgan Stanley and helped lead the institution through changes related to Dodd-Frank and building the private banking division.

Meet the Panelists- Brian Jennings

The event also featured comments from Brian Jennings, Vice President and Associate General Counsel for Hyster-Yale Group, Inc., a lift truck manufacturer with global sales and manufacturing operations.

Prior to joining Hyster-Yale in 2018, Jennings spent 20 years in private practice, primarily in Seattle and Portland, for Perkins Coie, a prominent law firm with over 1,000 lawyers. During the 15 years he was in Seattle, he worked closely with Boeing, including a secondment where he worked onsite with their legal department.

Leveraging experience in commercial bankruptcy, financial transactions, and commercial litigation, Jennings was tasked with leading the legal team for the Asia-Pacific and India-China division of Hyster-Yale from Portland, Oregon. He left the West Coast for Greenville when provided with an opportunity also to take helm of legal services for the company’s Americas Division.

“I have been fortunate to coordinate a great legal team to cover a significant portion of the world,” noted Jennings.

Navigating customer agreements, import/export issues, compliance with various environmental and safety regulations, worker’s comp claims, creating and revising company policies, understanding the company’s emerging technology, and dealing with day-to-day employment issues are just a few of the items crossing Jennings’ desk recently.

“Earlier in my career, I would only deal with one segment of these things. As I’ve been able to progress, I’ve had to deal with all of them. The key is having a team that you can rely on, provide guidance to, and send in the right direction,” he said.

Problem Solving is Critical

Hobbs advises the governance team at First Citizens, which covers cyber-related issues, financial regulations, and risk management. While at Wachovia and Morgan Stanley, dealing with rules pertaining to Dodd-Frank and assisting with mergers/integrations were part of her responsibilities.

“When I look back, I was handling things that were not my primary coverage area. This helped me expand my knowledge base,” explained Hobbs.

Though she has a team and partners that help with primary areas, Hobbs’ main role is problem-solving. “Things can be all over the place, and there’s no way to anticipate every possible change impacting the industry,” she said. “That’s what keeps it interesting.”

Similarly, Jennings noted a significant portion of his job involves identifying whether a problem exists and figuring out the best way to solve it. “Out of the little list I mentioned, I have expertise in exactly zero of them. And there are obviously some instances where it’s necessary to call outside counsel, but 90 percent of the time, you just have to figure out how to deal with the situation,” added Jennings.

Elevate, don’t Escalate!

Gray asked whether the attorneys had faced situations where they had to refuse an internal stakeholder’s request. “Over the decades I’ve been in this business, it’s been rare for me to have to completely squash something,” noted Hobbs. “It’s more about raising awareness of the issue to the right people, so you can have the right conversation.”

Ultimately, the professional and ethical responsibility of in-house attorneys reverts to the company they work for, Hobbs explained: “If an individual wants to do something that puts the company at risk, it’s my duty to do something about it, whether it’s advising that person on why their idea might be risky or running the issue up the chain.”

The key is to gather input from essential stakeholders, such as compliance, risk management, legal, and senior executives. “Have a conversation with the person, be transparent, and let them know, ‘Hey, we need to elevate this issue to the right people.’"  Hobbs added, "Try to say ‘elevate’ instead of ‘escalate’ because 'escalation' has a negative connotation."

This service model stems from the idea that in-house attorneys are service providers. “Although we aren’t directly paid by our internal clients, I try to keep that mentality,” said Jennings.

The role of the in-house attorney is to advise on serious issues and ensure the appropriate person has an opportunity to make a decision. Jennings explained, "A little pushback is healthy, and there have been occasions where it caused me to review something more closely and come up with a solution, I may not have thought of before." He added, "This is a testament to the quality of the people in my company."

What would Socrates do?

Stepping outside of one's comfort zone is part of the daily routine for many in-house attorneys. Hobbs explained she started in creditors’ rights, workouts, and bankruptcies. From there, she led commercial lending teams, then mergers and integrations, then marketing and sponsorships.

“Whenever somebody asked me to look into something, it often was outside my comfort zone. I began to realize the common thread with career progression is the ability to ask questions,” Hobbs noted.

Understanding that knowing everything about an organization is impossible, it is important to facilitate a dialogue between the right people. “Asking lots of questions and knowing which questions to ask is essential,” noted Hobbs. “Many financial issues are extremely complex, but in my experience, good people are always willing to share their insights…so just reach out and ask.”

When to go Outside

Prioritizing areas for the legal team to focus on is the only way to keep the business operating smoothly, explained Jennings: “If we spent too much time on the wrong issue, the business would grind to a halt. Figuring out which things are truly important and require a certain level of intensity, whether remaining internal or gathering specialized advice from outside counsel, is paramount.”

Gray: “What triggers a call to outside counsel?”

Hobbs: “If I need a gut check or some feedback about what other people are doing, I look to outside counsel. There are always new laws and regulations. Hearing about how other attorneys are dealing with various issues is very helpful.”

Risk is the main factor for Jennings. “If it’s something very specialized or that presents enough risk from a monetary, safety, or litigation standpoint, I seek outside counsel,” he said.

Remote Work and Generational Communication

Both panelists suggest a blend of remote work and office time, understanding it is difficult to replicate in-person interactions. “Personal interactions are vital for building knowledge of an organization and the clients you serve,” commented Hobbs. “Especially for younger attorneys, those informal conversations are essential for enriching your career path and development.”

Gray asked the attorneys for tips on how to work effectively with multiple generations. “The key is to understand your audience and their communication preferences,” noted Hobbs.

Reaching out to someone four different ways or calling just to say hello can be a source of irritation for busy professionals, so it's important to recognize that accommodating a preferred communication style can lead to advances in productivity.

Impact of Artificial Intelligence

Similarly, both attorneys feel AI has the potential to increase productivity, although the organizations they work for have not implemented the technology. Jennings illustrated the idea that in the past, finding an answer meant searching tomes of unrelated information.

The impact of search engines and AI is that it’s now possible to quickly find an answer to a narrow question, which can be efficient but may cause attorneys to miss learning along the way. “Having to search through unrelated text results in more context and a deeper breadth of knowledge,” explained Jennings. “Being able to recall information you didn’t need at the time can be very helpful when faced with a new question.”

Avoiding potential bias when using AI to process loan applications is an important issue for in-house attorneys in the banking industry, added Hobbs.

Tips and Advice

Jennings explained that around 60 percent of his time is spent on legal work, while the rest is spent on management/administrative tasks. Neither Hobbs nor Jennings imagined so much time would be spent on tasks outside of legal practice, however, both agreed it adds variety and enjoyment to the role of an in-house attorney.

Understanding how to maintain compliance in differing regions is essential for those who practice across state lines or international borders, as the rules can vary significantly. To stay current with industry issues, the attorneys advised subscribing to trade journals, publications, and newsletters, along with attending in-person seminars.

In terms of advice, they wish they had received at the outset of their careers, Hobbs said, “It’s important to have self-awareness and be aware of who you are working with; be authentic and recognize when others are not; and be willing to shift your path into another area if necessary.”

Jennings concluded by stating, “Getting some degree of general business and litigation experience is important because you’ll be better at both, and doing both is essential as an in-house counsel.”

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This article is not intended to give, and should not be relied upon for, legal advice in any particular circumstance or fact situation. No action should be taken in reliance upon the information contained in this article without obtaining the advice of an attorney.

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